Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

14) #ExponentialInsights: The 3 Steps You Must Take to Prepare for the Future of Work w/ Jon Ogden


Not too long ago ATMs were poised to end bank teller jobs…

But they ended up creating more. 

With a history of failed predictions like this, how do you prepare for the ever-changing future of work? 

In this episode, I catch up with Jon Ogden, Head of Strategic Content at MX, and he shares 3 steps every financial brand can take to future-proof their business… 

No crystal ball required.  

Jon explained:

-The history of failed predictions concerning the future of work

-The 3 steps you need to take to prepare for the future of work

-Specific areas financial brands should focus their attention on

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

The three steps would be to committo live your mission, to evolve your culture beyond a legacy mindset and toinvest in technology that will position your institution for the future. You are listeningto banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financialbrand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generatingten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insightseries, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get intothe show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay, and welcometo another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is partof the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome John Ogden to the show. John is the head of strategic content at Mx. Hello, John,hi, so thanks for joining me for today's conversation. One of the thingsthat I'm curious to know is, as we get started, what is onething that you and the team at mx is working on right now during thesedynamic and ever changing times. One thing that we're working on is a productcalled puls and pulses essentially like a financial feed for the end user. Soa banker accreditating order or a fantet company might offer it to their customers,and then the end user would be able to see in real time what ishappening with their finances, get nudges to help them see how to manage theirmoney better, and they might also be able to they would also be ableto see financial advice that is personalized to them, and so it really islike an automated financial guidance tool that banks and creditings and fintet companies can useto empower their customers to be financially strong, which in today's environment, is moreimportant now than ever before for a financial institution to position around that perspectiveof strength, of courage, of confidence. For context, you're working with pulseto provide nudges, behavior changes, modifications to empower someone. For context, can you take a step back and just paint the larger picture of whatmx is doing in the industry? Sure so. Mx focused on data andwe help our clients bring in an aggregated view of their end users so theycan see a three hundred sixty degree view...

...of their finances allowing place. Andthen we help our clients use that data to again empower the and used tobe financially strong, but to also help our clients use that data to understandtheir client their customer base, and to create hyperpersonalized offers for their end users, to do a variety of things really yeah. So, so if theyhave the data, they can do a lot with it. Yeah. So, if I was a take that, it's essentially you're simplifying the complexity ofdata to provide both actual insights for a financial brand but really, more importantly, actual insights for the consumer to make their life even that much better,because money is a very stressful situation. It's very complex in and of itself, kind of like data is to financial institutions, money is to people andpeople are looking for clarity. So with pulse, with MX, you're providingclarity into complexity. Is that a fair summary? Yeah, it is.Our mission is to empower the world to be financially strong and we help tosimplify finances for the end user and then those benefits are really monumental for ourclients as well. I like that empower the world to be financially strong,because there is such a strong correlation between a person's financial wellbeing, their physicalwellbeing and their mental wellbeing. And in this environment it is confusing, itis complex, it is overwhelming, and so let's transition the conversation to talkabout this environment really from two fronts. Number One, will take the approachof the future of work, which is a really an indepth guide that you'vewritten for financial brands, and then number two, how does the future ofwork impact the future of banking? So let's start with the future of work, because with within the last few weeks, since we've all been exposed to thiscovid nineteen crisis, work will never be the same again. Will nevergo back to what the world was before, will never go back to what wasconsidered once normal. We're only going to create a new normal going forward. In your viewpoint, what does that new normal look like, based uponwhat you've written about and then also what you're seeing in the in the environmenttoday with the future of work? That's a great question. I'll start bigpicture and then get into practical tips as I go on. I also sharesome of the original consumer research that we've done for these ultimate guides. So, big picture, it's about how work...

...evolves and we should expect work tocontinue to evolve. So for hundreds of thousands of years humans were hunter gatherers. You know, about tenzero years ago we started the a agricultural revolution andthen that continued through to pretty recently, known the past two hundred years,a minority of people were doing farming and now it's around two to five percent. And Yeah, I know you wrote in the Guide fifty five to seventyfive percent of Europeans still worked in agricultural are farming as recently as six hundredyears ago. So we're moving through. Continue to paint this picture for me, please, because we're moving through these different stages of of work as awhole. Yeah, and then in since the s now, the percentage ofknowledge workers has grown tremendously. It's grown two hundred thirty percent since nineteen thatsince the early S, and so work is becoming completely different thing than ithas been in our history. And there are a lot of predictions and assumptionsthat people have made based on this trajectory. A lot of them have been wrong. A few that I'll mention John Maynard Canes Roe Nineteen thirty, thathe thought that modern innovations would we all in a fifteen hour work within twofifteen hour work week. We didn't quite end up with that, though.Work weeks have a number of hours in each work week has decreased, justnot to fifteen hours. One needed crabs, who's an economist and ECOMMERCE secretary underJimmy Carter, predicted in one thousand nine hundred and seventy that the riseof computers would enable people to retire at the age of thirty eight. Soalso, I'm true, I'm still I'm still looking for that myself. Yes, same. And then when it comes to banking, in the early sa lot of exports thought that ATMs would replace tellers, and even in theNew York Times they said it would be up to seventy five percent of tellerswould be replaced. Now this hasn't happened. Z anyone works in banking nose tosome degree. Instead, teller jobs have grown slightly faster than the generallabor force. MMM, so we now? I've nearly half a million ATMs butnearly the same number of tellers. A teams have our place humans,and the reason for this is pretty interesting. So ATMs reduced the number of tellersneeded per branch, so went from two one hundred and thirteen and theaverage urban branch. But that reduction made it cheaper to build branches. Sobecause it was cheaper to build branches, therefore, then banks and credings builtmore branches and then hire or tellers overall. And the same thing happened in textiles. Automation the same thing is exact...

...same thing. It automation made gettingare making close cheaper, but that caused more people, more demand for clothes, which cause more people needed to be needed to make those clothes. Sothere's an interesting play there between automation and the number of people employed and Ithink it has pretty big implications and banking itself. If people are wondering,am I going to lose my job or not? So it's almost like achicken or the egg. What came first? What's driving all of this? Andto summarize, you know, we've gone through these different economic work cycles, agricultural, industrial, technological. We're moving into the age of AI.We really move beyond from a service economy to what some might argue to bean experience economy, but I'm pushing that conversation Ford further. You mentioned theknowledge work or the knowledge economy or something that I'm calling the expertise economy.Will work is not necessarily about what you do, but it's about what youthink or the value that you create through your thinking or the insights just you'reable to distill, almost kind of bringing this conversation full circle, simplifying thecomplex. Sure, yeah, absolutely, there's a lot of value and beingable to do that. Yeah, so that's that's that's the stage. Let'stalk about where where we can go with the future of work, because you'vedetailed and laid out three almost a three step road map of actions that afinancial brand can take when it comes to the future of work. Sure thatbanks can take specifically. So this is in the ultimate guide to the futureof banking and it the three steps would be to commit to live your mission, to evolve your culture beyond a legacy mindset and to invest in technology thatwill position your institution for the future. So let's talk about committing to liveyour mission. This is an area I find many times there are gaps throughthe diagnostic work that we do. An executive team, a board of directorsmight feel that, you know, we're on this mission, but the missionmight be self serving and might be clinical, it might be legacy. So there'san opportunity to stop, pause, think and and what are those opportunitiesfrom your perspective, when it comes to the mission of a financial brand orthe purpose of a financial brand, what idea that I think is pretty convincedcompelling is to hire or just make the position of an internal anthropologist, sosomebody who, whether it's employees you already have or employees that you hire,you want to get a very clear, as objective as possible sense for whathow your institution is actually measuring up to...

...your mission, because it's one thingto have a mission statement or to talk about high values and a completely differentthing to actually live that mission. And so one way to do that isto have people who are observing whether you're accomplishing that in your organization, asan anthropologist would sitting back and seeing. Okay, we say that we areabout we put our customers first. Well, let's just look at whether that's true. Is it true in the branch? Is it true on Mobile? Isit true on our digital banking portal? Is it true in our customer service, you know these these employees would be able to listen in and justobserve what's happening right get a very clear sense for what is because you don'twant to be deluded into thinking that you're accomplishing your mission if you're not.I love that. Digital Anthropology, the study of people and the connection betweenpeople and technology. I know Brian Soulis. He's written a lot around that perspectiveof digital anthropology. It's almost like what we say and what we door what we believe, does that translate into what we say or communicate,and then does that held up by what we do or how we act,how we deliver on the promise? So purpose in forms the process, thewhy informs the how. I like that very, very practical when it comesto committing to live the mission digital anthropology. The second point you recommended is evolvingbeyond a legacy mindset. I truly believe mindset is exponentially more valuable thantechnology, because you can have all of the technology, you can have allthe tools, but if you don't have the mindset to capture the opportunity totake advantage of the capabilities full advantage of the capabilities. Then you just havea tool. At the end of the day, what are the opportunities fora financial brand and their teams to evolve beyond a legacy mindset? And what'sholding the back? You know it's holding the back is there is some wisdomin those who are holding the institution back, and that wisdom is hey, weshould be cautious. There's wisdom in that. That said, too muchcaution can be paralyzing, hmm. And so one of the things that,man, it's fine, real valuable about what we offer is that we notonly provide the technology, but we also help them evolve from a legacy mindset in a way that is still secure, because we acknowledge that that that thatposition of wanting security and safety is valid and we're not riding that offcompletely say that's a bunch of nonsense.

Just get with the times, youknow, and we have empathy for that position very much. We're saying you, you really do have to evolve. A lot of these institutions don't knowexactly how to do that and so, in addition to provide a technology,we all sepoy guidance to be able to do that. One of the reasonsthat people really have to evolve, and this is one of our survey findings, is that we do these surveys of a thousand random US consumers and mostof her lptimke ads, and one of our findings was that eighty six percentof US consumers say they interact with their financial institution by a digital channels morefrequently than physical channels, and the rate at which people do it is farhigher than they come into the branch. Let me look at the exact percentagehere. It was more than eighty percent say the use mobile banking at leastweekly and more than half say they use it every one to two days.So eighty percent. So that with mobile banking. But when we asked aboutbranch visits, only eighteen percent said they would visit it, visit a branchin a week. And so this is the reason why the legacy mindset isreally so urgent, because people are moving quickly to mole we've even seen this. We asked this question in two thousand and fifteen to two thousand and twentynow, and the the rate of people adopting mobile has really grown fast,and so there is a sense of urgency around adopting this legacy mindset that Ithink a lot of institutions are clued into, but they might not know exactly howto go about evolving that mindset. Technology has transformed our world and digitalhas changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumersmake purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk intoa branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans anddeposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelmingfor any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to, becauseJames Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way alongyour digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview ofhis best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now foryou and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifestothat was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practicaland proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loansand deposits. Now back to the show. So there's a lot of parallels herewith the way that we're thinking, because what I view is what Icall the circle of chaos, and that is where the environment, the competition, consumer behavior changes at an exponential rate and that's been sped up, probablymore so since the COVID nineteen crisis.

It's almost forced us into a takea proactive stance, because if we're still reactive, we're going to get runover. But but to your point that we got to have empathy, weneed to have respect, but what guide us to the point, to wherewe are today, will not get us to where we need to go tomorrow. And Digital Darwinism is a very real thing. The retail apocalypse is avery real thing, which, coming back to your point about what drove branchgrowth. Was it people, was it people consumer behavior, or was itautomation and cheapened or reduce the cost to build these physical locations? So,being very congresses of these facts, I think what what you talking about iskey. Not only can we provide the technology in the tools, but willprovide, number one, the guidance. We're going to take your hand,we're going to walk you through this. Number two, we're going to holdyou accountable because, just like money, is confusing and complex. This ideaabout technology and data is complex. Having someone to hold your hand makes ita little bit less scary. It reduces the fear of the unknown, itreduces the fear of change. So that brings me to the next point,because we are talking about technologies, tools and you mentioned investing in technology thatwill position your financial brand for the future. I mean there are literally thousands.There's been a CMO report. There's now over, I think, seventhousand marketing technologies alone available to a brand. That's not talk talk about data technologies. Let's simplify this, let's let's distill this down from your perspective.What are the key technologies a financial brand shout hone in on and limit thenoise or the confusion. So, when we asked consumers what they wanted mostfrom their financial institution, the first the most respondence. Thirty nine percent respondentsaid that they were what they wanted most was the best rates. The second, however, was twenty five percent the best digital experience, destop a mobile. So some financial institutions might not be able to do much about rates.They can, they can try their best, but they might be kind of stuckthere. So if they can't, if you can't one all rates,or if you're doing the best you can and rates, then the next thingto do is to focus on the best digital experience. destop a mobile immediatelyafter that was the best stomer service, and that really is becoming more andmore intertwined with the best mobile and destop experience, where people want the abilityto if they are in and a digital experience, to quickly get to ahuman via that digital experience and vice versa, to be talking with somebody on supportand get help in the digital on...

...their digital view as well. Sothis is really where it's critical to focus especially because, as as I said, eighty percent of customers are are getting on their mobile device, the mobilebanking device, at least weekly. There's no other channel that is close tothat. So they're really tuned into mobile and so if if I were tosuggest one area to really focus in on, it would be mobile banking for now, with an eye to future technologies. You don't want to get locked ina in a digital experience that isn't able to evolve with you. Thisis that we find that we are very adamant about. At Mx are crossplatform framework is built in such a way that we're able to evolve as newtechnology comes about. We don't get our clients stuck in contracts where, whena new operating system comes out or a new device comes out, they can'tmove forward. So it's about you. Yeah, it's so it's a bitmore of an agile approach, being able to look at new environmental conditions,new consumer conditions, new competitor threats and being able to adapt and evolved,because you talked about those three things, rates, experience and service, butfocusing primarily on experience and services, something more that a financial brand can control. Once again, bringing this full circle back to the purpose or the missionof the financial brand. What you believe or what you think, how youcommunicate that and then how you deliver that through these experiences, experiences being nothingmore than well defined systems and process as that have been defined, applied andoptimize over a set period of time, resulting in one of two things,a positive emotion or a negative emotion. It's the ultimate question. Coming backto digital anthropology, taking the mobile banking experience, talking to consumers, howdoes this make you feel? Do you feel like you can trust this?Do you feel like you're getting value? From this experience, if we're goingto look at that lens of experience and coming this bring this back to thefuture of work. One of the things that you wrote about in the futureof work that I thought was really critical was around the need to upskill orreskill workers. Yeah, we talk to me about that because I know there'sso many people. I hear this when working with financial brands. Well,what about my job? Well, but only three were sent of CEOS fromyour research you noted are, I think it was actually as a centure.Only three percent of bank executives were planning to significantly increase their investment in reskillingtheir teams in the next three years. That's a problem. Absolutely, it'sa problem. So the conversation around this topic is it's not exactly clear tome yet whether these jobs are going to... lost or not, because thereare. There are like just to briefly recap some of the studies that havebeen done, like one ox one study from Oxford said that they put thelikelihood that teller's loan officers and brokerage clerks, they said the likelihood of those jobsbeing automated is ninety eight percent within the next decade and then others sayno, it's more like nine percent or five percent. We're depending on thejob. And then others say no, in fact, like Jamie diamond,he says people are massively overacting to the fear of automation. My guess isthat head account will go up and the next twenty years, not down.And then another point that somebody has made is they said they studied the occupationsI have been eliminated by automation since the nineteen since nineteen fifty, and theysaid that of the two hundred and seventy one occupations listed in in the nineteenfifty census, only one, elevator operator, had been rendered obsolete by automation bytwo thousand and ten. And so there's a bunch of disagreement, butI think the thing that we can keep in mind is that whatever happens,whether these jobs are elimitated or not, the one thing that we can holdfor certain is that they're going to change. Yeah, the jobs are not goingto like the jobs are not going to look the same ten years fromnow, five years from now, twenty years from now, and so thisreskilling really is essential and it can be difficult again to know exactly how togo about doing the reskilling. One example that I'll share, just to getinto specifics, is we have a program called Finn Strong, and it's likefinancial education, HMM, and one position that we take is that it's goingto be more important going forward than ever for employees in financial services to havea solid understanding of what it means to have financial strength for themselves and fortheir customers. Yeah, yeah, start with the employees, to get allof the employees and an institution really clear about how to develop financial illness andfinancial strength, and then they are reskilled in a way that they can talkto customers about how to become financially strong on the front lines. That rightthere, that is gold. I can think of one examples. Sun Trust, which is now soon to be truest financial when they launched their on upprogram back in twenty, I think it was two thousand and fifteen, twothousand and sixteen, not only did they go consumer facing, they went employeefacing with their on up program to me, this presents one of the greatest opportunitiesfor financial brands as new roles are...

...created. Number One, the digitalcells team to filled all of the incoming leads. Number two the digital moneycoach, the person that can provide guidance, accountability, there's that word again,to help someone modify their behaviors. And so, to Jamie diamonds point, we're probably going to be hiring more people just with new skill sets,because this is a like a human to human business, but the way thatwe connect is just through these digital technology. I think, coming back to yourprevious point, when you're talking about mobile banking, experience and service,if I have a question, it makes me feel good sometimes it's still beable to raise my hand and get in touch with another human being. AisNice. Automation is is nice, but every now and then I still wantto like talk to someone flesh and blood. Is Am I. is my thinkingsound with that? If I was a CEO and say I still thinkwe need a human component? Yes, yeah, as long as the technologyenables them to get to that person quickly but then apposit on hold or througha phone tree for a long amount of time. Yeah, I think thatthere are things, especially with financial guidance, where an institution can really lean inand develop that long term brand loyalty. Yeah, I'm caute bank is doingthis the very, very well with their their digital video mobile solution that'sembedded into into their mobile APP. So it's a way that they've been ableto optimize that even further. Looking ahead into the future, one of thethings that you noted in the future of banking guide was insights from the RoyalBank of Scotland and how to watch a digital bank within an existing bank.And this is almost this a very unique opportunity because it's almost like to wherewe could create the future while we respect the past and pay homage to thelegacy, but then also take actions. What are those three steps that you'vewritten about in the guide? So, yeah, this from Mark Bale,former group CEO of Royal Bank of Scotland, and he's the currency of the bankingat bow and so the three steps that he says is that you needthe backing of your CEO and chairman. HMM. So he says unless theCEO is driving the vision, there's no point in starting purpose acts. Butif you can get there, if you can get your executive team on boardand you know that you have the backing of the executive team, you're ina really good place. Second is the digital bank must be separated from thecore business while still having executive level sponsorship. So this can be difficult, butthis is like what you're saying. It's really about straddling the the dividebetween future facing and respect for the past. So you still want to have executivelittle sponsorship that you really can't be tied of the core, because youneed to be able to develop this in a way that can be flexible forwhatever technology comes forward in the future.

And then, third the exactly thedigital bank must fit within the existing risk appetite framework and work in the longterm. So it's really about establishing something that is going to be viable,even if the future brings us a completely different way of thinking about technology andother words like V are or Internet of things. Yeah, you have tobe building in such a way that what you built today can easily port sureyou know whatever is coming. I think, looking outside the industry, a reallygood example of this is almost like transforming your own business model before theenvironment forces you to to do that. Taking it once again proactive versus reactive. Netflix and Netflix is such a great story because Netflix, obviously it wasa direct to consumer, you know, deliver the DVDVML. Then they disruptedor transformed that business model. They went to streaming. They almost lost itat that point. They were ahead of the time with that thinking, butthat was what was almost the demise of blockbuster and that retail organization. Butthe Netflix took it even further, which you know, you being, youknow, with your perspective one content. Netflix became a production organization to wherethey're now. There they almost control the entire experience delivered digitally. So alot of future thinking and being one step ahead, taking a little bit ofrisk, but it's calculated risk and then reaping the rewards from that. John, I appreciate all the insights that you've shared today as we've wrapped up very, very practical stuff looking ahead into the next twelve months. I'm a financialbrand CEO, I'm on their marketing team, I'm leading cells. What is onepractical recommendation or action item that you could recommend for my team to moveforward with confidence down this journey? I'd Sara. Now that man, there'sso many things to think about. If I had to choose one and themoment I would say that you would want to be thinking about whether customer cando anything they want to do by a digital channel and preferably mobile, because, I mean we're seeing what's happening with the coronavirus. People just aren't ableto do the things that they they are able to do banking the way thatthey used to be able to do it. Our CEO, Ryan cobbal he hetalks about his experience with chick fil a using door dash and they're aptand being able to get in with their APP and see, I believe thisis a chick flays APP. I should I should clarify that, and dohis order that way and even pay via his phone and can just go throughthe drive through, get the get the... and go and talking about thatexperience and how quickly they've they're pivoting when they can't have diners inside their store, and how financial institutions can learn something similar. Can you offer an experiencethat's seamless, that in some ways is even preferable to going into the tothe branch? And if you can, then I think you're well positioned forwhat the future might bring and that's a great place to be in. Yeah, I mean it's just like we started this conversation, that we're never goingto go back to the way that work was before because of all these environmentalchanges brought about by Covid nineteen. I we will never go back to thebanking the way that we banked before covid nineteen because, just like financial brandsare being forced to change, consumer behaviors changing and once those new behaviors,once those new habits are embedded, it is going to be a new normal. John, great insights, very, very practical stuff. Today. Ifthere's someone listening, they have a question, they want to connect with you,want to continue to the dialog. What is the best way for someoneto reach out and say hello to me personally? You could reach out.Let's stay by Linkedin. Perfect. I'm again. We'll get you. We'llget that linked up in the show notes. So thanks again for joining me,John. Yeah, thank you as always. Until next time, bewell, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episodeof banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, Google podcast or spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even morepractical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcom to grab a preview ofJames Roberts best selling book, banking on digital growth, or order a copyright now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategicmarketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus that empower you toconfidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well anddo good.

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