Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

136) #ExponentialInsights: Failure is Just Extreme Market Research

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Fin tech leaders have big goals and even bigger dreams. 

But it’s vitally important to celebrate where you’ve come from and the progress you’ve made thus far. 

Dan Sullivan, Founder and President at Strategic Coach , has high-achieving entrepreneurial clients in 35 different countries.  

He’s also a best-selling author, and his new magnum opus is The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers' Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success. 

In this episode, we’ll dive into: 

- How Dan leveraged virtual tech during the pandemic to reach amazing growth

- Focusing on your successes instead of what you haven’t achieved yet

- The gap and how to avoid it

- How failing is just “extreme market research”

- Creating freedom and a new future 

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...the basic problem is that once you've had an achievement, how do you measure what you've achieved? It's all about measurement. Okay, so human progress is all based on measurement, it's got to be between two points. Mhm mhm mm. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their Digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 136 episodes of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome back dan, Sullivan to the show dan is the co founder and president of strategic Coach and he's also the co author of the new book, The Gap in the gain that he has collaborated on with Dr Benjamin Hardy, who has also been a guest on this podcast as well. In fact, dan and I have also chatted before going all the way back to episode number 69 which I do recommend listening to after you wrap up this one because I'm really looking forward to the conversation with you today dan, welcome back to the show. It is good to have you? Well it's a it's a great pleasure and uh you know uh you were talking about uh time in the past and strategic Coach where you showed up in the wrong room, but uh just being in the room for a short period of time before the guards came out, came in and removed. That started you out That you developed a goal to be in the 10 times program in strategic coach. So it's been a great treat to have you and my workshops over the last year. Well, I've gotten so much out of it and that's what you and I were talking about before is I think it's just, you know, continuously looking for the good, which is why I always start this podcast off with this question and I love to get your take on it. What is good? What has been good personally, professionally? It's always your pick here? Well, I'll tell you something, you know, there's a kind of way that you have to talk over the last year and a half, like yeah, it's very, very difficult times and you know, you know, we're all having to adjust in certain ways and you have to kind of talk that way. There's sort of your public talk and then your is your private talk and said, these are the two greatest years I've ever had in my life. They really have been, they really have been and what has made that so great for you? Well, one thing is that I had really mastered zoom five years before Covid. So I had been using it, we're in three countries, organizationally were in London were in Toronto were in Chicago. So three countries. So we went to zoom just for teamwork. And uh, one of my main people that works with me on a continual basis is in Winnipeg Canada, which is about 1000 miles west of Toronto. So all of our team work had been on zoom and I had just gotten really, really comfortable with the medium. The big problem is at, you couldn't use it for marketing purposes, you couldn't use it for coaching purposes because there wasn't anyone at the other end. Right, okay. So it wasn't a big change on our part, it's just that the world showed up, You know, I would say 90 days after lockdown in March of 2020 by June, the...

...whole world had shown up, you know, and we were able to switch um switch the coaching program to from in person to virtual. And then because we had the opportunity, we created a brand new virtual program Where it will never be in person, you know, there will never be in person for them. And we have, I think about 700 new coach clients who are 35 different countries and you know, it was interesting about it and I think that pride corresponds to your experience is that none of them was coach new to them. They had been listening to podcasts, they've been reading books for years and they had sort of this thing. You know, someday if I get the opportunity, I'm actually going to join the strategic coach program. Accessibility. But the trip was just an insurmountable obstacle. The time away was just an insurmountable obstacle. And then you know, there's just the tax that you pay, which is the, the stress of travel. And uh you know, I always say that the airlines have maintained their consistent marketing strategy from before, Covid their strategy before Covid as we're not happy until you're not happy and Covid or no Covid, they remained absolutely constant to their strategy. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm so glad, you know, just just getting back on the road a little bit to go speak in person and I do miss the in person experience. Don't miss the travel one. But I'll tell you what, I'm so happy. I'm not flying southwest right now because the cancellations that they have had throughout. But you're right, like a lot of this does come down to just continuously focus on the positive, continuously focus focusing on the good, which is, which is where the new book, the gap in the game comes back into play and and it's extremely for important for financial brand leaders to read, to think about, especially those who are on a journey to maximize their future growth, not around a physical world but around a digital world, which can feel confusing. It controlled, frustrating, can feel overwhelming. What's the backstory here. What's the backstory of the gap in the game? Where did the idea come from? Well, just a little historical background, I started coaching entrepreneurs. Yes, one on one in 1974, I had been a copywriter with a big ad agency, Bbdo, big global ad agency Toronto Office, but I had always had this knack, you know, in life of being able to ask people really great questions that I didn't know the answer to, but they did okay. So, you know, it's kind of like, you know, I'll ask the question of someone that if You know, we're talking about where you are right now and you look back where you were 10 years ago, what would you say were the five biggest jumps that you made that got you from here to there? Well, I don't know the answer to the question, but it means a great deal to them, but it's the first time anyone's ever asked them the question and by answering the question, they begin seeing things not just from their past, but they see that the way they've done something over the last 10 years gives them 80% of a handle on what to do for the next 10 years and I call that coaching, I'm coaching through questions okay? I don't need to know anything about what you do, but I just have to ask certain questions where you start taking one part of your experience and comparing it with another and you draw insights and you make decisions, You make plans and that's so that's what strategic coaching is and you know, I'm 47 years into it personally in our company of 32 years, so we've got a lot of different questions when we got a lot of different thinking processes, Long...

...story short, my marketplace are all high achievers, okay. And they're all now, you know where we are right now, the minimum personal income to get into coach is 200,000 American. Okay, that's your, that's your well that, you know, a lot of people say, well a lot of people do that and actually a lot of people don't do that. It's about one out of, You know, I don't know, it's about one out of 4000 entrepreneurs that makes $200,000. So we got a very, very select audience and they're all high achievers and James robert. They were, I I think there uh it's factory installed with them, I think the high in chief, I think they they came off the assembly line as high achievers and it's very interesting and he doesn't mind me using this as an example, but the book that I created with Ben hardy and we have a collaboration that Ben and I worked together, it's coach ideas, he writes and Ben's just got a really great major market book style that just enhances the ideas that we have and then we have an agreement with Hay house publishers that was put together by a man by the name of tucker max and if you're in the publishing world or anything else, uh Tucker is a very prominent individuals, we're gonna get tucker on the podcast. We've already had that connection there. Yeah, and tucker is um at birth, he popped out, high achiever, you know, big goals, you know, don't have to teach tucker how to have big goals, big achievements, big you know, big capabilities don't have to teach him, but he missed all the classes on being happy. So he was a four times New York Times bestseller before he was 30 years old, a movie was made out of one of them and everything like that. But everything that from the outside you say, he's got all the reasons in the world to be really happy, wasn't happy. And what I, what I notice is that all these high achievement skills aren't any formula whatsoever for being happy. I mean, can you, can you not be the way you are James robert? I am me right. So anyway, it's told in the story, but there was a particular individual, Very talented, he was a movie maker, a video maker and he had vast experience with Fox News with Mike Douglas show and everything like this and so in every workshop that we do live workshop and I'm taking you back to 19 93 in the situation that I'm talking about here and you come in in the first hour of an eight hour workshop, you talk about your progress and your success and you get together in groups and you talk about it and everybody's saying, wow, I didn't know I had achieved so much boy that really, that that quarter really makes me feel good that last 90 days, man, that's amazing. You know, when you're in it, you don't realize how much you're achieving everything, not chuck, this guy's name was chuck and chuck no, no, no, none of that matters. He said that I missed this, I didn't do this. So his stress was on what he didn't get done, not on what he did get done. Let's talk about that because I think that's the important point here is I think about financial brands and they have these big goals of transformation, of moving from the physical to the digital, there's so much to do. But then yeah, we get stuck, like chuck, we get stuck like chuck and we fall into the gap and when I say fall into the gap, I can't help think of the gap closed, but that's what we're talking about, we get stuck in the gap, what is this? What is the gap here? So I'm a quite a good artist from the standpoint of doing...

...diagrams and I've had it since a kid, you know, I mean I was born with this diagramming capability and when people are telling me about their experience, I see their experiences as diagrams, okay, I see arrows and stars and circles, you can have an ability and not know that the ability is worth anything. But what I began to realize when I can combine this with open ended questions that I could actually structure out how a person was looking at it, so chuck who was stuck, made me so mad. I I mean I just, I don't get mad very often, but when I get mad, it's not in half degrees, I really get mad, and I said, can I show you what you're doing? And I put up a diagram and the diagram is actually in the, you know, the 1st 1st pages of the book, the diagram and the way you see it is exactly the way I did in 1993. Yeah, and I just, I just absolutely nailed it on the first thing and I said, this is your brain chuck, okay, this is your brain and I want to show you what you're doing to your brain. And so I showed there's what you're doing and it, it never makes you happy. And then I'm going to show you what it looks like if it was making you happy, okay, And I said this side, I'm going to call the gap on the other side, I'm going to call the game and this all came to me, I mean this, I don't know about you, but a lot of breakthroughs just come fully formed, some call it Infinite Intelligence. You get a digital download into your mind, whatever it is, it works. Yeah. But usually I have to get riled up. I have to get, you know, there has to be a high emotional, something's really getting to me and it can be uh, you know, it can be very positive, but also negative here. It was negative and I just didn't want to put up with this anymore. So I said, here's what you're doing. You have an ideal of how you should be, Right, what it should look like. And the ideal actually throws light on what you can do during the next 90 days. And then there are specific things which are achievable, they're actually goals and you set off and I know you're very productive. I know you knock out a lot of videos, I know you've won a lot of prizes. I know you've got really big clients. So those are really goals that you achieved. But when you get to the goal, you do something weird, you measure it against your ideal and the ideal is still way off in the future. So you've been at this for 40 years, since you know you could remember and always when you achieve a goal really big deal, you know, big new project, big new contract, big new paycheck our goals, you measure against the idea and you say I didn't do anything, it's like when you get into a car and you're driving towards the future, you're driving towards the horizon line, you're never gonna reach the horizon line because it's always gonna keep moving ahead and you're talking about chuck and I can think about, you know, someone at a financial brand or Fintech, they have these big goals, they have these big ideas and ideals and they start moving towards that. They check things off the list, but then new things go on the list and they never take time to celebrate where they've come from the progress that they made. And so they keep looking up the mountain and they're like, how am I going to climb that mountain? It's too high. I'm curious who is most at risk for falling into the gap and maybe getting trapped there. Is there a personality or a type that that maybe the dear listeners should be thinking about either themselves or others that they're working with. Yeah. You know, and uh, since I work with a very, very specific type of target market, I don't know if this is generally, you know, it's generally true across the human race because I only deal with entrepreneurs, I only deal with entrepreneurs at a very high level of...

...achievement And they're not new entrepreneurs either. They've got five years, 10 years, some of them have 30 years And experience. So that's that, that's, you know, for the last 47 years, that's my entire life and it's not that I have great answers for them, what I have is great questions for them and they have the answers and then I create really useful diagrams about how to think. So I said now chuck, this is always going to make you unhappy, and I talked to the other people in the, you know, in the workshop, I didn't make it all about chuck and I said, how many of you, this is what you do, You have this ideal which throws light on what a goal can be and you achieve the goal, but then you take the goal achieved and measure it against the ideal. It's like nothing happened and you've been doing this for your entire existence as a human being, you're working with entrepreneurs, we're working with financial brands and leadership teams, marketing and sells. I will tell you there's a lot of similarities and and once again, I can't speak for the larger high achievers in every field of of life. High, high achieving actors, high achieving athletes, high achieving politicians. So someone gets stuck in the gap. They feel failure. They're focused on that failure that even if it might not be failure, that's their perception everybody on the outside said you succeeded. Yeah, and I've been there, I know you've been there but we make a conscious choice to not stay there. So someone who is listening, who it might be feeling this way frustrated stuck in that failure mind depressed how might they be able to escape and get out? What what can they do? Well, I said, there is another way of see the basic problem is that once you've had an achievement, how do you measure what you've achieved? It's all about measurement. Okay, So human progress is all based on measurement. It's got to be between two points. Okay? But they have to be real points that you can't can't be an imaginary that arbitrary. Can't be arbitrary. So I said, let's go over to the other side and we look at it the other way and we go through the same thing. You have the ideal and the ideal is just a mechanism that we have in our mind of seeing ourselves in the future. That's what the ideal is. We have a an ability humans and I think we're uniquely good at this of actually seeing a new version of ourselves in the future that's bigger and better uh producing bigger results, and it's a higher quality experience. Okay, so when people talk about goals, it's a bit confusing because it's not a thing, it's yourself in the future with superior results. That's that's what, you know, that's really what a goal is. So I said, no, we do the same thing that chuck is stuck is doing right here. And I used him, I mean, and he disappeared from the program shortly after this, but he had caused me so much grievance. Up until then I had to get some, I had to get some reward forever, all the grievances, you know, so I said, here is the ideal, you have the goal and you get to the goal and instead of measuring against the imaginary ideal, you turn around and measure where you started. They said you mean measure backwards and I said yeah, measure backwards. Well that's not progress. And I said of course it is. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch. If they walk into a...

...branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights, you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show. What happens when, when instead of measuring against where we need to go, which can often lead to that confusion, frustration, overwhelm you measure backwards and I think that's, that's the secret, that's the secret habit here. What happens can only be measured backwards. And what happens though, I don't care. Well, you immediately feel this sense of, oh this is where I I was and the achievement I just had, I couldn't have done it three months ago, but now I've done it and you feel this, oh, this is really great, okay, and the thing is, a lot of people say, yeah, but if you do that, you'll just get satisfied with your and I said, I've never, I said it's a theory, but I've never seen it actually proved, I said everyone that I know who's experienced a jump in progress wants to have more of it and I think you're right, is that oh, well, you're gonna get satisfied and I would agree with you, it's like you go to the gym, you're running, you see transformation in your body, your cadence picks up, you, you put some muscle on, Like that makes you feel good, but you're measuring the progress by where you've come from instead of thinking, oh, I gotta look like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger. No, it's like I'm better off than I was 90 days ago, which I'm curious about why 90 days, because it's an interesting model and I've been thinking a lot about this when, when, when starting to frame out banking on change at season's like seasons work in 90 day quote unquote sprints, why don't we do the same in business? Yeah, I don't know. You know, I mean, there's some things, I just accept that it kind of works and uh you and I are, there's a particular profile that we use in strategic coach and we're called quick starts and six starts the way a quick start start something is that they started, they don't do a lot of research first to figure out whether they should do it. They don't create a lot of system ahead of time to do it. You just do it. If you want to start something, you just started and then you have to be very, very alert, very quickly whether you've made the right decision. Okay, so with quick starts, all the research is done after you've gone into motion. I'm glad I'm glad you're bringing that up because for context for the dear listener, episode 1 20 for Audrey in and dan Audrey is our certified Kobe consultant, so we're now utilizing this to help bring awareness into financial brand teams and what we're seeing. They typically over index in initiating fact finder and initiating follow through, but the the opposite side is true on that quick start. And so I think going in there and creating a bit of a balance, That's where the dichotomy comes into play. Well, I'm surrounded by people who have great back, find your skills and follow through skills, right? Yes. It's really full B is the street is the secret is to put together a great team where all the capabilities are combined, not for your individual. I mean, it's useful for you to know,...

...but it's really the payoff is in the kind of teamwork you can do, you've talked a lot about chuck, but I want to get personal here with you gap and gain because one of the things that you say is like, I'll give myself five minutes and then I'm out, I'm done. Like, I'm moving on what's been a story, a situation in your life where you have fallen into the gap, what happened, You got out of it. And I think the important part is what did you learn from the experience? Yeah, I think, you know, I had some really hard hits in my thirties and this would have been in the 1970s and uh, you know, and I had a divorce, you know, and you know, depending on our upbringing in that we think that a relationship that you really have to work at all the time is a really good relationship, okay? And I failed, you know, it ended up in a divorce and then my first attempt at having my own business, I went bankrupt and it just happened that both legal proceedings happened on the same day. It was August 15, 1978 and I could arrange the schedule. So I did the the divorce in the morning so I could keep my credit card and celebrate at lunch. I had to give my credit card in because when you go bankrupt in Canada you give your you have to relinquish your credit cards. And I was, it was like to really, really bad report cards. I mean you know divorce and bankruptcy, your report cards. And I kind of say most fundamental relationship of your life. You just failed and business the most fundamental economic activity that you've attempted in your life. You just failed. And it took me couple of years, a couple of years where I was really down on myself as a failure. Okay. And I say, and people say, well, how do you look at those two experiences now? And I said, I just look at it as extreme market research. Right. Well, and that's and that's I think the best way to approach this because I think we we attach that was obviously the brown relationship. Right? I mean, I mean, don't do that again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the bad news, it could still be going on, you know, and uh you know, and the same thing that uh what the bankruptcy told me is I can only do certain of the things that are involved in having a successful business and then I found my partner for life as it turns out handle both problems, both failures. She were married, but she's the person who actually runs the company and she's got great field, she's got great skills for putting an organization and teams together and everything like that. And I'm freed up just to create the, the content of the program. That's a great point that you make because you had a failure that can then lead to like that low self esteem, that depression, which then ties into guilt and it's just this like negative cycle loop. But you just said something that I think was key freedom, which is another concept that you write about in the book, the freedom to versus the freedom from Yeah, well I think uh it's two stages of an entrepreneurial career and I think that most entrepreneurs, when they first become entrepreneurs, it's to get away from things that they don't like and the biggest thing they don't like is having someone else in control of their time. I would say hands down the greatest part of education for becoming an entrepreneur is that you don't want your hours controlled and be the property of someone else that you're basically paid for your hours. Okay.

And so your entrepreneurial career is an attempt to get away from a lifetime of employment. Yeah, yeah. And I think the same is true though when I think about what's going on in financial brands were trying to create this freedom from the physical world, where there's an opportunity to, to really the freedom to create something new, something that it's almost a first principles approach to creation. But but another concept that you touch on the book is comparison. I mean comparison is a killer. I see a lot of this through the work we're doing the financial brands, They compare themselves to other banks, other crediting his other fin tax. What's the opportunity to transform the thinking from comparison and really like focus on the idea of just unique, which is, I know a big, big area for you here. Well, the big thing is about measurement, all human progress in any area of human activity is based on measurement. How do you know that what you're doing now is better than what you were doing before you have to have measurements. Okay. And I would say here, I just finished a book that's coming out. It's our next quarterly series and I think this is going to be a big seller is called american happiness. Okay, as the eight mindset you have to have, if you're going to be a happy american, Okay. And it really plays into, I would say that the field that you're in and the focus that you're having is right at the cutting edge of the financial world, but also the technological world and these are areas that americans are unsurpassed in. I mean if you you take a look at where americans really dominate, it's in the total financial world, not a particular branch of the financial world but the ability to move capital as a resource very quickly from one area to another and then enhanced now an accelerated by technology. This is made for american kind of stuff. Okay. But the other thing is that it creates bad, crazy dreams and goals that you then measure yourself by. Uh huh. And that's what I want to touch on because I want to flip the script here slightly because when I look at financial brands and the opportunities for them to create a new future, a future that puts the transformation of people over the transaction of dollars and cents. That's a whole different way of thinking. And from our research people want three things, they want to feel healthy, they want to feel wealthy, they want to feel happy. But money is kind of that, it's that It takes a toll on the health. It takes a toll on well being. It takes a toll on unhappiness. And you know in in in in the gap of the gain 14% of American adults say they are happy, only 14. So does that mean 86% are not happiness? Not happy. Happiness comes from something outside when when looking at the role of a bank, a Fintech can play in this conversation at a larger scale. It's beyond dollars and cents. It's truly transformed. I'm just gonna riff on like the opportunity, I want to bring a brand from another industry and to kind of tell you how the Fintech if it's going to be a positive and it's going to be a value creating part of the financial world. If the transformation from in person banking too in pursing financial transactions, anything into the digital world is going to work, the human being has to be at the center of it. I mean the human being is and they think that digital means impersonal. I mean there's this notion that we can in switching from in person, we can get rid of the human beings, you know it's just numbers, we just numbers and I...

...said you know that's um that never works in any other industry, Why is it that work in your industry? Okay and I said and yours is more intensely personally emotional than most other industries. I mean money and the loss of or the lack of or the sudden abundance of is an intensely emotional experience. And uh one of the great, one of my favorite brands that I've learned a lot from is the Four Seasons hotels. Okay so the Four Seasons is you know In 40 different countries right now but it started in a motel on a back street in Toronto which was the red light district and it was the motel was where you could get a room for for an hour at a time and this architect in Toronto got the idea that he traveled in europe and he really liked the small hotel concept, you know the luxury small hotels and he did about a two year you know taking notes, I think he was good on fact finder and good on follow through and he came back with a kind of formula of how you could put together an entirely new hotel concept in the United States and he bought this motel dirt cheap and he converted it, you know it's still a motel, will still look like a motel but he used it as a training school to test out methods and he did for two years and that's the start and then the categorias uh glorious and it just became one of the great luxury hotel. I mean there were luxury hotels that were just one hotel but he created a network of hotels around the world starting Canada than the United States and went around it. And um and they have a concept that holds their whole hotel together and said systematize the predictable so that you can humanize the exceptional. I've studied a lot of uh Isadore sharp uh part of this and you know even even the four seasons experience bulls down to three things that they've written about number one democratizing innovation Number two eliminating the fear of failure. So really empowering that front line to take control and make decisions and and then number three powering people with data. I mean this is kind of how they gone through this transformational evolution into moving here and I'll never forget my wife and I when we got married true story, we wanted to go to bora bora four seasons bora bora, Something that we've been looking at before we got married. But I mean we were you know, 20 for the business was still getting started. I was in graduate school doing an M. B. A. That's the one I don't have a lot of regrets in life but I want my money back from my M. B. A. Um Total aside how many nights at how many four seasons could you're absolutely absolutely. You would have learned more. You would have learned for. Yes. And I'll tell you so what we did is um we got pregnant in 2000 and nine and I was like we have to go to bora bora four seasons but we gotta do this now, otherwise we'll start having kids. It's gonna be much more difficult. So I think she was maybe four or five months pregnant and we took that trip out there and fantastic for I mean that's a brand experience to that I've learned a lot from and have studied over the years because it it is about people, you put the people at the center of all of the thinking all of the doing. And I think that's that's where this idea the concept of the gap in the game. It's about people and more importantly, it's deeper. It's about the mind of the conversations that we have with ourselves as we wrap up. Such, I mean, so many practical lessons they can apply. What's the best way for them to get the book? Where can they find it?...

Yeah, it's just um Gapping gain book dot com and, and uh amazon has it. You can, you know, you can go gap and gain on amazon. We're big fans of them, they don't know, we exist. You know, it's one of those things, you know, we're a pebble off the side of a, you know, uh ocean ocean liner, but amazon really movies books. I mean, if you got a good book amazon, so I have no problem with amazon whatsoever. It's like electricity, you know electricity or don't want to have electricity. You know, you get am Amazon and uh, you know, the thing is that we find that everybody the moment they read this book said, I know 20 people who should read this book because I can just see what these other people are doing to themselves. I can see what I'm doing to myself, but I can see we're all doing this And it's just that our parenting, our educational system doesn't teach people how to measure their progress. I will tell you this, I will give you some positive hope. My son was in fourth grade, my daughter is now in fourth grade and they spent the 1st 30 days of school in this particular program studying growth mindset with the works of carol Dweck, I'm telling you, I have seen so much transformation what they're thinking to where they're able to take a negative or a quote unquote failure, not let it bog them down, learn from it, apply that going forward. So where's this, where's this? This isn't right outside of Houston texas. That program is called connect, which I think is actually out of California. It's a hybrid based learning to where the pandemic was out honestly an easy transition because they were already digital, uh computer based, but it wasn't 100% computer based. Then the teacher becomes more of a mentor coach and then they do collaborations with students as basically you know, peer to peer, you know, teaching. So it's really, really good to see what they're doing. I would say taking the traditional education model, transforming it a bit too where it's more collaborative and helpful all the way. I just I just think that this one life skill of recognizing that when you set a goal you have a picture of yourself that you're projecting on the future. Okay. And then that allows you to establish achievable goals and you do the goals and when you achieve your goal, don't measure against the image, turn around and measure where the starting point was if a kid learns that, you know, like at four years old or five years old, they can learn anything else in their life in a very, in a way that's uniquely valuable to them. Uh, they'll, they'll select their own unique goals. They'll, they'll have their own unique progress and they'll measure and get their own unique measurements and just make them happy. I mean all this talk about mental health, you know, you, you can chemically enhance people or use shockwaves any way you want. But at the end of it, they don't know how to measure their progress. You've made someone wealthy, but it's not the person who is receiving the treatment. And I think that's, that's what it bulls down to. For the dear listeners, we wrap up always keep in your mind, progress is greater than perfection and get the book, learn how to number one, see if you are in the gap and then if you are, don't beat yourself up over because the big thing just says, it's there at the end of every day, just look back at your days experience and pick out the three wins. That's it, write them down and then before you go to bed, anticipate tomorrow in terms of three wins that you can do tomorrow and you teach a child that and they're off and running, which we actually do. My kids have gotten condition now at dinner time to where if I don't say they say dead, are you going to ask me...

...what was good about my day? Uh if I don't do that, they're calling me out on it. So it's, it's really, it's a beautiful thing. So for the dear listener, grab a pin, grab a piece of paper, write down your three winds onwards and upwards and great conversation. Always good seeing you always good having you on, looking, looking forward to doing this again soon. Okay, see you at the workshop. Absolutely as always un until next time be well. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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