Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 months ago

136) #ExponentialInsights: Failure is Just Extreme Market Research


Fin tech leaders have big goals and even bigger dreams. 

But it’s vitally important to celebrate where you’ve come from and the progress you’ve made thus far. 

Dan Sullivan, Founder and President at Strategic Coach , has high-achieving entrepreneurial clients in 35 different countries.  

He’s also a best-selling author, and his new magnum opus is The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers' Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success. 

In this episode, we’ll dive into: 

- How Dan leveraged virtual tech during the pandemic to reach amazing growth

- Focusing on your successes instead of what you haven’t achieved yet

- The gap and how to avoid it

- How failing is just “extreme market research”

- Creating freedom and a new future 

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...the basic problem is that once you'vehad an achievement, how do you measure what you've achieved? It's all aboutmeasurement. Okay, so human progress is all based on measurement, it's got tobe between two points. Mhm mhm mm. You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their Digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 136 episodes of thebanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome back dan, Sullivanto the show dan is the co founder and president of strategic Coach and he'salso the co author of the new book, The Gap in the gain that he hascollaborated on with Dr Benjamin Hardy, who has also been a guest on thispodcast as well. In fact, dan and I have also chatted before going all theway back to episode number 69 which I do recommend listening to after youwrap up this one because I'm really looking forward to the conversationwith you today dan, welcome back to the show. It is good to have you? Well it'sa it's a great pleasure and uh you know uh you were talking about uh time inthe past and strategic Coach where you showed up in the wrong room, but uhjust being in the room for a short period of time before the guards cameout, came in and removed. That started you out That you developed a goal to bein the 10 times program in strategic coach. So it's been a great treat tohave you and my workshops over the last year. Well, I've gotten so much out ofit and that's what you and I were talking about before is I think it'sjust, you know, continuously looking for the good, which is why I alwaysstart this podcast off with this question and I love to get your take onit. What is good? What has been good personally, professionally? It's alwaysyour pick here? Well, I'll tell you something, you know, there's a kind ofway that you have to talk over the last year and a half, like yeah, it's very,very difficult times and you know, you know, we're all having to adjust incertain ways and you have to kind of talk that way. There's sort of yourpublic talk and then your is your private talk and said, these are thetwo greatest years I've ever had in my life. They really have been, theyreally have been and what has made that so great for you? Well, one thing isthat I had really mastered zoom five years before Covid. So I had been usingit, we're in three countries, organizationally were in London were inToronto were in Chicago. So three countries. So we went to zoom just forteamwork. And uh, one of my main people that works with me on a continual basisis in Winnipeg Canada, which is about 1000 miles west of Toronto. So all ofour team work had been on zoom and I had just gotten really, reallycomfortable with the medium. The big problem is at, you couldn't use it formarketing purposes, you couldn't use it for coaching purposes because therewasn't anyone at the other end. Right, okay. So it wasn't a big change on ourpart, it's just that the world showed up, You know, I would say 90 days afterlockdown in March of 2020 by June, the...

...whole world had shown up, you know, andwe were able to switch um switch the coaching program to from in person tovirtual. And then because we had the opportunity, we created a brand newvirtual program Where it will never be in person, you know, there will neverbe in person for them. And we have, I think about 700 new coach clients whoare 35 different countries and you know, it was interesting about it and I thinkthat pride corresponds to your experience is that none of them wascoach new to them. They had been listening to podcasts, they've beenreading books for years and they had sort of this thing. You know, somedayif I get the opportunity, I'm actually going to join the strategic coachprogram. Accessibility. But the trip was just an insurmountable obstacle.The time away was just an insurmountable obstacle. And then youknow, there's just the tax that you pay, which is the, the stress of travel. Anduh you know, I always say that the airlines have maintained theirconsistent marketing strategy from before, Covid their strategy beforeCovid as we're not happy until you're not happy and Covid or no Covid, theyremained absolutely constant to their strategy. Well, I'll tell you what, I'mso glad, you know, just just getting back on the road a little bit to gospeak in person and I do miss the in person experience. Don't miss thetravel one. But I'll tell you what, I'm so happy. I'm not flying southwestright now because the cancellations that they have had throughout. Butyou're right, like a lot of this does come down to just continuously focus onthe positive, continuously focus focusing on the good, which is, whichis where the new book, the gap in the game comes back into play and and it'sextremely for important for financial brand leaders to read, to think about,especially those who are on a journey to maximize their future growth, notaround a physical world but around a digital world, which can feel confusing.It controlled, frustrating, can feel overwhelming. What's the backstory here.What's the backstory of the gap in the game? Where did the idea come from?Well, just a little historical background, I started coachingentrepreneurs. Yes, one on one in 1974, I had been a copywriter with a big adagency, Bbdo, big global ad agency Toronto Office, but I had always hadthis knack, you know, in life of being able to ask people really greatquestions that I didn't know the answer to, but they did okay. So, you know,it's kind of like, you know, I'll ask the question of someone that if Youknow, we're talking about where you are right now and you look back where youwere 10 years ago, what would you say were the five biggest jumps that youmade that got you from here to there? Well, I don't know the answer to thequestion, but it means a great deal to them, but it's the first time anyone'sever asked them the question and by answering the question, they beginseeing things not just from their past, but they see that the way they've donesomething over the last 10 years gives them 80% of a handle on what to do forthe next 10 years and I call that coaching, I'm coaching throughquestions okay? I don't need to know anything about what you do, but I justhave to ask certain questions where you start taking one part of yourexperience and comparing it with another and you draw insights and youmake decisions, You make plans and that's so that's what strategiccoaching is and you know, I'm 47 years into it personally in our company of 32years, so we've got a lot of different questions when we got a lot ofdifferent thinking processes, Long...

...story short, my marketplace are allhigh achievers, okay. And they're all now, you know where we are right now,the minimum personal income to get into coach is 200,000 American. Okay, that'syour, that's your well that, you know, a lot of people say, well a lot ofpeople do that and actually a lot of people don't do that. It's about oneout of, You know, I don't know, it's about one out of 4000 entrepreneursthat makes $200,000. So we got a very, very select audience and they're allhigh achievers and James robert. They were, I I think there uh it's factoryinstalled with them, I think the high in chief, I think they they came offthe assembly line as high achievers and it's very interesting and he doesn'tmind me using this as an example, but the book that I created with Ben hardyand we have a collaboration that Ben and I worked together, it's coach ideas,he writes and Ben's just got a really great major market book style that justenhances the ideas that we have and then we have an agreement with Hayhouse publishers that was put together by a man by the name of tucker max andif you're in the publishing world or anything else, uh Tucker is a veryprominent individuals, we're gonna get tucker on the podcast. We've alreadyhad that connection there. Yeah, and tucker is um at birth, he popped out,high achiever, you know, big goals, you know, don't have to teach tucker how tohave big goals, big achievements, big you know, big capabilities don't haveto teach him, but he missed all the classes on being happy. So he was afour times New York Times bestseller before he was 30 years old, a movie wasmade out of one of them and everything like that. But everything that from theoutside you say, he's got all the reasons in the world to be really happy,wasn't happy. And what I, what I notice is that all these high achievementskills aren't any formula whatsoever for being happy. I mean, can you, canyou not be the way you are James robert? I am me right. So anyway, it's told inthe story, but there was a particular individual, Very talented, he was amovie maker, a video maker and he had vast experience with Fox News with MikeDouglas show and everything like this and so in every workshop that we dolive workshop and I'm taking you back to 19 93 in the situation that I'mtalking about here and you come in in the first hour of an eight hourworkshop, you talk about your progress and your success and you get togetherin groups and you talk about it and everybody's saying, wow, I didn't knowI had achieved so much boy that really, that that quarter really makes me feelgood that last 90 days, man, that's amazing. You know, when you're in it,you don't realize how much you're achieving everything, not chuck, thisguy's name was chuck and chuck no, no, no, none of that matters. He said thatI missed this, I didn't do this. So his stress was on what he didn't get done,not on what he did get done. Let's talk about that because I think that's theimportant point here is I think about financial brands and they have thesebig goals of transformation, of moving from the physical to the digital,there's so much to do. But then yeah, we get stuck, like chuck, we get stucklike chuck and we fall into the gap and when I say fall into the gap, I can'thelp think of the gap closed, but that's what we're talking about, we getstuck in the gap, what is this? What is the gap here? So I'm a quite a goodartist from the standpoint of doing...

...diagrams and I've had it since a kid,you know, I mean I was born with this diagramming capability and when peopleare telling me about their experience, I see their experiences as diagrams,okay, I see arrows and stars and circles, you can have an ability andnot know that the ability is worth anything. But what I began to realizewhen I can combine this with open ended questions that I could actuallystructure out how a person was looking at it, so chuck who was stuck, made meso mad. I I mean I just, I don't get mad very often, but when I get mad,it's not in half degrees, I really get mad, and I said, can I show you whatyou're doing? And I put up a diagram and the diagram is actually in the, youknow, the 1st 1st pages of the book, the diagram and the way you see it isexactly the way I did in 1993. Yeah, and I just, I just absolutely nailed iton the first thing and I said, this is your brain chuck, okay, this is yourbrain and I want to show you what you're doing to your brain. And so Ishowed there's what you're doing and it, it never makes you happy. And then I'mgoing to show you what it looks like if it was making you happy, okay, And Isaid this side, I'm going to call the gap on the other side, I'm going tocall the game and this all came to me, I mean this, I don't know about you,but a lot of breakthroughs just come fully formed, some call it InfiniteIntelligence. You get a digital download into your mind, whatever it is,it works. Yeah. But usually I have to get riled up. I have to get, you know,there has to be a high emotional, something's really getting to me and itcan be uh, you know, it can be very positive, but also negative here. Itwas negative and I just didn't want to put up with this anymore. So I said,here's what you're doing. You have an ideal of how you should be, Right, whatit should look like. And the ideal actually throws light on what you cando during the next 90 days. And then there are specific things which areachievable, they're actually goals and you set off and I know you're veryproductive. I know you knock out a lot of videos, I know you've won a lot ofprizes. I know you've got really big clients. So those are really goals thatyou achieved. But when you get to the goal, you do something weird, youmeasure it against your ideal and the ideal is still way off in the future.So you've been at this for 40 years, since you know you could remember andalways when you achieve a goal really big deal, you know, big new project,big new contract, big new paycheck our goals, you measure against the idea andyou say I didn't do anything, it's like when you get into a car and you'redriving towards the future, you're driving towards the horizon line,you're never gonna reach the horizon line because it's always gonna keepmoving ahead and you're talking about chuck and I can think about, you know,someone at a financial brand or Fintech, they have these big goals, they havethese big ideas and ideals and they start moving towards that. They checkthings off the list, but then new things go on the list and they nevertake time to celebrate where they've come from the progress that they made.And so they keep looking up the mountain and they're like, how am Igoing to climb that mountain? It's too high. I'm curious who is most at riskfor falling into the gap and maybe getting trapped there. Is there apersonality or a type that that maybe the dear listeners should be thinkingabout either themselves or others that they're working with. Yeah. You know,and uh, since I work with a very, very specific type of target market, I don'tknow if this is generally, you know, it's generally true across the humanrace because I only deal with entrepreneurs, I only deal withentrepreneurs at a very high level of...

...achievement And they're not newentrepreneurs either. They've got five years, 10 years, some of them have 30years And experience. So that's that, that's, you know, for the last 47 years,that's my entire life and it's not that I have great answers for them, what Ihave is great questions for them and they have the answers and then I createreally useful diagrams about how to think. So I said now chuck, this isalways going to make you unhappy, and I talked to the other people in the, youknow, in the workshop, I didn't make it all about chuck and I said, how many ofyou, this is what you do, You have this ideal which throws light on what a goalcan be and you achieve the goal, but then you take the goal achieved andmeasure it against the ideal. It's like nothing happened and you've been doingthis for your entire existence as a humanbeing, you're working with entrepreneurs, we're working withfinancial brands and leadership teams, marketing and sells. I will tell youthere's a lot of similarities and and once again, I can't speak for thelarger high achievers in every field of of life. High, high achieving actors,high achieving athletes, high achieving politicians. So someone gets stuck inthe gap. They feel failure. They're focused on that failure that even if itmight not be failure, that's their perception everybody on the outsidesaid you succeeded. Yeah, and I've been there, I know you've been there but wemake a conscious choice to not stay there. So someone who is listening, whoit might be feeling this way frustrated stuck in that failure mind depressedhow might they be able to escape and get out? What what can they do? Well, Isaid, there is another way of see the basic problem is that once you've hadan achievement, how do you measure what you've achieved? It's all aboutmeasurement. Okay, So human progress is all based on measurement. It's got tobe between two points. Okay? But they have to be real points that you can'tcan't be an imaginary that arbitrary. Can't be arbitrary. So I said, let's goover to the other side and we look at it the other way and we go through thesame thing. You have the ideal and the ideal is just a mechanism that we havein our mind of seeing ourselves in the future. That's what the ideal is. Wehave a an ability humans and I think we're uniquely good at this of actuallyseeing a new version of ourselves in the future that's bigger and better uhproducing bigger results, and it's a higher quality experience. Okay, sowhen people talk about goals, it's a bit confusing because it's not a thing,it's yourself in the future with superior results. That's that's what,you know, that's really what a goal is. So I said, no, we do the same thingthat chuck is stuck is doing right here. And I used him, I mean, and hedisappeared from the program shortly after this, but he had caused me somuch grievance. Up until then I had to get some, I had to get some rewardforever, all the grievances, you know, so I said, here is the ideal, you havethe goal and you get to the goal and instead of measuring against theimaginary ideal, you turn around and measure where you started. They saidyou mean measure backwards and I said yeah, measure backwards. Well that'snot progress. And I said of course it is. Technology has transformed ourworld and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financialservices forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before theywalk into a branch. If they walk into a...

...branch at all, but your financial brandstill wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feelconfusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing andsales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the bookthat guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey,visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book,banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your teamfrom Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that waswritten to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical andproven insights, you can start using today to confidently generate 10 timesmore loans and deposits now back to the show. What happens when, when insteadof measuring against where we need to go, which can often lead to thatconfusion, frustration, overwhelm you measure backwards and I think that's,that's the secret, that's the secret habit here. What happens can only bemeasured backwards. And what happens though, I don't care. Well, youimmediately feel this sense of, oh this is where I I was and the achievement Ijust had, I couldn't have done it three months ago, but now I've done it andyou feel this, oh, this is really great, okay, and the thing is, a lot of peoplesay, yeah, but if you do that, you'll just get satisfied with your and I said,I've never, I said it's a theory, but I've never seen it actually proved, Isaid everyone that I know who's experienced a jump in progress wants tohave more of it and I think you're right, is that oh, well, you're gonnaget satisfied and I would agree with you, it's like you go to the gym,you're running, you see transformation in your body, your cadence picks up,you, you put some muscle on, Like that makes you feel good, but you'remeasuring the progress by where you've come from instead of thinking, oh, Igotta look like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger. No, it's like I'mbetter off than I was 90 days ago, which I'm curious about why 90 days,because it's an interesting model and I've been thinking a lot about thiswhen, when, when starting to frame out banking on change at season's likeseasons work in 90 day quote unquote sprints, why don't we do the same inbusiness? Yeah, I don't know. You know, I mean, there's some things, I justaccept that it kind of works and uh you and I are, there's a particular profilethat we use in strategic coach and we're called quick starts and sixstarts the way a quick start start something is that they started, theydon't do a lot of research first to figure out whether they should do it.They don't create a lot of system ahead of time to do it. You just do it. Ifyou want to start something, you just started and then you have to be very,very alert, very quickly whether you've made the right decision. Okay, so withquick starts, all the research is done after you've gone into motion. I'm gladI'm glad you're bringing that up because for context for the dearlistener, episode 1 20 for Audrey in and dan Audrey is our certified Kobeconsultant, so we're now utilizing this to help bring awareness into financialbrand teams and what we're seeing. They typically over index in initiating factfinder and initiating follow through, but the the opposite side is true onthat quick start. And so I think going in there and creating a bit of abalance, That's where the dichotomy comes into play. Well, I'm surroundedby people who have great back, find your skills and follow through skills,right? Yes. It's really full B is the street is the secret is to put togethera great team where all the capabilities are combined, not for your individual.I mean, it's useful for you to know,...

...but it's really the payoff is in thekind of teamwork you can do, you've talked a lot about chuck, but I want toget personal here with you gap and gain because one of the things that you sayis like, I'll give myself five minutes and then I'm out, I'm done. Like, I'mmoving on what's been a story, a situation in your life where you havefallen into the gap, what happened, You got out of it. And I think theimportant part is what did you learn from the experience? Yeah, I think, youknow, I had some really hard hits in my thirties and this would have been inthe 1970s and uh, you know, and I had a divorce, you know, and you know,depending on our upbringing in that we think that a relationship that youreally have to work at all the time is a really good relationship, okay? And Ifailed, you know, it ended up in a divorce and then my first attempt athaving my own business, I went bankrupt and it just happened that both legalproceedings happened on the same day. It was August 15, 1978 and I couldarrange the schedule. So I did the the divorce in the morning so I could keepmy credit card and celebrate at lunch. I had to give my credit card in becausewhen you go bankrupt in Canada you give your you have to relinquish your creditcards. And I was, it was like to really, really bad report cards. I mean youknow divorce and bankruptcy, your report cards. And I kind of say mostfundamental relationship of your life. You just failed and business the mostfundamental economic activity that you've attempted in your life. You justfailed. And it took me couple of years, a couple of years where I was reallydown on myself as a failure. Okay. And I say, and people say, well, how do youlook at those two experiences now? And I said, I just look at it as extrememarket research. Right. Well, and that's and that's I think the best wayto approach this because I think we we attach that was obviously the brownrelationship. Right? I mean, I mean, don't do that again. Yeah. Yeah. I meanthe bad news, it could still be going on, you know, and uh you know, and thesame thing that uh what the bankruptcy told me is I can only do certain of thethings that are involved in having a successful business and then I found mypartner for life as it turns out handle both problems, both failures. She weremarried, but she's the person who actually runs the company and she's gotgreat field, she's got great skills for putting an organization and teamstogether and everything like that. And I'm freed up just to create the, thecontent of the program. That's a great point that you make because you had afailure that can then lead to like that low self esteem, that depression, whichthen ties into guilt and it's just this like negative cycle loop. But you justsaid something that I think was key freedom, which is another concept thatyou write about in the book, the freedom to versus the freedom from Yeah,well I think uh it's two stages of an entrepreneurial career and I think thatmost entrepreneurs, when they first become entrepreneurs, it's to get awayfrom things that they don't like and the biggest thing they don't like ishaving someone else in control of their time. I would say hands down thegreatest part of education for becoming an entrepreneur is that you don't wantyour hours controlled and be the property of someone else that you'rebasically paid for your hours. Okay.

And so your entrepreneurial career isan attempt to get away from a lifetime of employment. Yeah, yeah. And I thinkthe same is true though when I think about what's going on in financialbrands were trying to create this freedom from the physical world, wherethere's an opportunity to, to really the freedom to create something new,something that it's almost a first principles approach to creation. Butbut another concept that you touch on the book is comparison. I meancomparison is a killer. I see a lot of this through the work we're doing thefinancial brands, They compare themselves to other banks, othercrediting his other fin tax. What's the opportunity to transform the thinkingfrom comparison and really like focus on the idea of just unique, which is, Iknow a big, big area for you here. Well, the big thing is about measurement, allhuman progress in any area of human activity is based on measurement. Howdo you know that what you're doing now is better than what you were doingbefore you have to have measurements. Okay. And I would say here, I justfinished a book that's coming out. It's our next quarterly series and I thinkthis is going to be a big seller is called american happiness. Okay, as theeight mindset you have to have, if you're going to be a happy american,Okay. And it really plays into, I would say that the field that you're in andthe focus that you're having is right at the cutting edge of the financialworld, but also the technological world and these are areas that americans areunsurpassed in. I mean if you you take a look at where americans reallydominate, it's in the total financial world, not a particular branch of thefinancial world but the ability to move capital as a resource very quickly fromone area to another and then enhanced now an accelerated by technology. Thisis made for american kind of stuff. Okay. But the other thing is that itcreates bad, crazy dreams and goals that you then measure yourself by. Uhhuh. And that's what I want to touch on because I want to flip the script hereslightly because when I look at financial brands and the opportunitiesfor them to create a new future, a future that puts the transformation ofpeople over the transaction of dollars and cents. That's a whole different wayof thinking. And from our research people want three things, they want tofeel healthy, they want to feel wealthy, they want to feel happy. But money iskind of that, it's that It takes a toll on the health. It takes a toll on wellbeing. It takes a toll on unhappiness. And you know in in in in the gap of thegain 14% of American adults say they are happy, only 14. So does that mean86% are not happiness? Not happy. Happiness comes from something outsidewhen when looking at the role of a bank, a Fintech can play in this conversationat a larger scale. It's beyond dollars and cents. It's truly transformed. I'mjust gonna riff on like the opportunity, I want to bring a brand from anotherindustry and to kind of tell you how the Fintech if it's going to be apositive and it's going to be a value creating part of the financial world.If the transformation from in person banking too in pursing financialtransactions, anything into the digital world is going to work, the human beinghas to be at the center of it. I mean the human being is and they think thatdigital means impersonal. I mean there's this notion that we can inswitching from in person, we can get rid of the human beings, you know it'sjust numbers, we just numbers and I...

...said you know that's um that neverworks in any other industry, Why is it that work in your industry? Okay and Isaid and yours is more intensely personally emotional than most otherindustries. I mean money and the loss of or the lack of or the suddenabundance of is an intensely emotional experience. And uh one of the great,one of my favorite brands that I've learned a lot from is the Four Seasonshotels. Okay so the Four Seasons is you know In 40 different countries rightnow but it started in a motel on a back street in Toronto which was the redlight district and it was the motel was where you could get a room for for anhour at a time and this architect in Toronto got the idea that he traveledin europe and he really liked the small hotel concept, you know the luxurysmall hotels and he did about a two year you know taking notes, I think hewas good on fact finder and good on follow through and he came back with akind of formula of how you could put together an entirely new hotel conceptin the United States and he bought this motel dirt cheap and he converted it,you know it's still a motel, will still look like a motel but he used it as atraining school to test out methods and he did for two years and that's thestart and then the categorias uh glorious and it just became one of thegreat luxury hotel. I mean there were luxury hotels that were just one hotelbut he created a network of hotels around the world starting Canada thanthe United States and went around it. And um and they have a concept thatholds their whole hotel together and said systematize the predictable sothat you can humanize the exceptional. I've studied a lot of uh Isadore sharpuh part of this and you know even even the four seasons experience bulls downto three things that they've written about number one democratizinginnovation Number two eliminating the fear of failure. So really empoweringthat front line to take control and make decisions and and then numberthree powering people with data. I mean this is kind of how they gone throughthis transformational evolution into moving here and I'll never forget mywife and I when we got married true story, we wanted to go to bora borafour seasons bora bora, Something that we've been looking at before we gotmarried. But I mean we were you know, 20 for the business was still gettingstarted. I was in graduate school doing an M. B. A. That's the one I don't havea lot of regrets in life but I want my money back from my M. B. A. Um Totalaside how many nights at how many four seasons could you're absolutelyabsolutely. You would have learned more. You would have learned for. Yes. AndI'll tell you so what we did is um we got pregnant in 2000 and nine and I waslike we have to go to bora bora four seasons but we gotta do this now,otherwise we'll start having kids. It's gonna be much more difficult. So Ithink she was maybe four or five months pregnant and we took that trip outthere and fantastic for I mean that's a brand experience to that I've learned alot from and have studied over the years because it it is about people,you put the people at the center of all of the thinking all of the doing. And Ithink that's that's where this idea the concept of the gap in the game. It'sabout people and more importantly, it's deeper. It's about the mind of theconversations that we have with ourselves as we wrap up. Such, I mean,so many practical lessons they can apply. What's the best way for them toget the book? Where can they find it?...

Yeah, it's just um Gapping gain bookdot com and, and uh amazon has it. You can, you know, you can go gap and gainon amazon. We're big fans of them, they don't know, we exist. You know, it'sone of those things, you know, we're a pebble off the side of a, you know, uhocean ocean liner, but amazon really movies books. I mean, if you got a goodbook amazon, so I have no problem with amazon whatsoever. It's likeelectricity, you know electricity or don't want to have electricity. Youknow, you get am Amazon and uh, you know, the thing is that we find thateverybody the moment they read this book said, I know 20 people who shouldread this book because I can just see what these other people are doing tothemselves. I can see what I'm doing to myself, but I can see we're all doingthis And it's just that our parenting, our educational system doesn't teachpeople how to measure their progress. I will tell you this, I will give yousome positive hope. My son was in fourth grade, my daughter is now infourth grade and they spent the 1st 30 days of school in this particularprogram studying growth mindset with the works of carol Dweck, I'm tellingyou, I have seen so much transformation what they're thinking to where they'reable to take a negative or a quote unquote failure, not let it bog themdown, learn from it, apply that going forward. So where's this, where's this?This isn't right outside of Houston texas. That program is called connect,which I think is actually out of California. It's a hybrid basedlearning to where the pandemic was out honestly an easy transition becausethey were already digital, uh computer based, but it wasn't 100% computerbased. Then the teacher becomes more of a mentor coach and then they docollaborations with students as basically you know, peer to peer, youknow, teaching. So it's really, really good to see what they're doing. I wouldsay taking the traditional education model, transforming it a bit too whereit's more collaborative and helpful all the way. I just I just think that thisone life skill of recognizing that when you set a goal you have a picture ofyourself that you're projecting on the future. Okay. And then that allows youto establish achievable goals and you do the goals and when you achieve yourgoal, don't measure against the image, turn around and measure where thestarting point was if a kid learns that, you know, like at four years old orfive years old, they can learn anything else in their life in a very, in a waythat's uniquely valuable to them. Uh, they'll, they'll select their ownunique goals. They'll, they'll have their own unique progress and they'llmeasure and get their own unique measurements and just make them happy.I mean all this talk about mental health, you know, you, you canchemically enhance people or use shockwaves any way you want. But at theend of it, they don't know how to measure their progress. You've madesomeone wealthy, but it's not the person who is receiving the treatment.And I think that's, that's what it bulls down to. For the dear listeners,we wrap up always keep in your mind, progress is greater than perfection andget the book, learn how to number one, see if you are in the gap and then ifyou are, don't beat yourself up over because the big thing just says, it'sthere at the end of every day, just look back at your days experience andpick out the three wins. That's it, write them down and then before you goto bed, anticipate tomorrow in terms of three wins that you can do tomorrow andyou teach a child that and they're off and running, which we actually do. Mykids have gotten condition now at dinner time to where if I don't saythey say dead, are you going to ask me...

...what was good about my day? Uh if Idon't do that, they're calling me out on it. So it's, it's really, it's abeautiful thing. So for the dear listener, grab a pin, grab a piece ofpaper, write down your three winds onwards and upwards and greatconversation. Always good seeing you always good having you on, looking,looking forward to doing this again soon. Okay, see you at the workshop.Absolutely as always un until next time be well. Do good and make your bed.Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growthwith James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcastand leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify andsubscribe while you're there to get even more practical improvementinsights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of Jamesroberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy rightnow for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategicmarketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus thatempower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits untilnext time, be well and do good.

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