Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

131) #ExponentialInsights: How to Turn Your Customers into Superfans!


Do you have fans or superfans?

No matter what else changes, one thing will always be true.

Your most valuable and loyal customers are the ones who find you from a trusted referral.

And superfans are the customers who sent them.

Today’s guest, Brittany Hodak , Chief Experience Officer at , is an expert in superfans — and more importantly, how to win them for your financial brand. She joins the show to share her secrets.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why siloes and poor employee experience inevitably lead to a poor customer experience

- Why customer expectations are not just set by you or your direct competitors, but every other brand

- How you can gain better feedback and customer insights by ditching the outdated surveys 

Head to for Brittany's experience architecture framework.

Learn more about Brittany's new 

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.'s your responsibility as somebodywho's asking for feedback to have a real plan in place to not just fixsomething that went wrong with whoever took that survey and told you, but todo it in very close to real time. So you've got to have a complaintresolution, work clothes, you've got to escalate things in real time to peoplewho have the power to fix them because otherwise it's more insulting than ifyou had never asked at all. Yeah, mm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 131st episode of theBanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Brittany Hudak tothe show, Britney is the chief experience officer at Experience dotcom where they believe well experiences everything. Now Britney is also aninternational keynote speaker and entrepreneur calls her an expert atcreating loyal fans for your brand because she is widely regarded as thego to source on creating and more importantly retaining super fans and itis that point of super fans, which is what I'm looking forward to exploringtogether with you the dear listener today because it is super fans that canmassively help you maximize your financial brand or your fin text futuredigital growth potential. Welcome to the show Britney. It is so good to haveyou on today, looking forward to the conversation because we're alreadyhaving a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you, I'm so excited to be here and thrilledthat we're recording now. Yes, you know, it took a while to get our schedulesbetween just kids and family, but before we dive into super fans, I'mjust curious to start off on a positive note, what is one thing that you'reexcited about personally professionally? It's always your pick, you know rightnow, I am so excited about a brand new keynote that I've been working on forexperience dot com. I've been working on kind of our thought leadershiparound the entire idea of experienced management and I'm really stoked aboutthat right now, and that's something that that will probably come back tohere in a moment. One of the things that caught my eye with just your, yourown own positioning and something that you've been thinking about even writingabout is this idea of a super fan and I think words have power and moreimportantly than that, defining what...

...this is, so what is a super fan fromyour worldview? So the simplest way that I can explain a super fan is acustomer who creates more customers. It's somebody who loves what you do,who will be back and who tells their friends to come check you out as welltoo. So whether you are talking about somebody in the world of sports ormusic or banking or mortgage, it's somebody who says I identify with thatand I'm going to become an advocate for it because all of the people around mein my life who I love should have this good thing in their life to a customerwho creates more customer, which is in fact the most trusted marketing channelon Planet Earth. Is that referral from someone that you already like. No onetrusts were shortening that cycle in another consumers buying journey. Thathappens in their mind. And this is why I think this conversation is socritically important because it really fits into the r of what we call thebanker. Strategy circle banker is an acronym B A N. C E. R. Build anaudience with data, attract leads with personalized offers, nurture thoseleads with content and automation, convert them from loans and deposits,expand relationships by the lining accounts and then they are repeat theprocess with ratings with reviews and with referrals. And so I really likewhere where just this is gonna go today. You recently shared a linked in and andreally just about an hour ago but it caught my eye. You shared that youlearned a lot about customer experience from your dead, who you said was betterthan you know just taking care of people, better than anyone that you'veever met and and he helped you fall in love with C. X. Before we even knewwhat C. X. Customer experience was and just about everything else you'velearned on this side customer expo experience, customer service, customerloyalty has come from your favorite adopted uncle shep hike in. I'm curiouscan you expand further into how these two minds helped to shape both? Yourpersonal perspective is as well as the expertise that you've gained on C. X.Yeah. Absolutely. Well thank you for asking. I don't get to talk about mydad a lot but my dad was my hero, he was awesome, his name was jodi and hewas so loved by everyone and when I was a kid my dad managed a restaurant, along john silver's restaurant and I always loved going in and like sittingin the booth and you know coloring or whatever it was I was doing and seeinghow much my dad loved every employee at his restaurant all these it was a lotof kids right? It was a lot of like teenagers and young adults and he wasso invested in all of those employees and he knew so many customers by nameand I loved that like as a kid to see you know like everybody loves my dadand I thought he had this like big cool...

...important job And then when I wasprobably like 11 or 12, my dad started working at a car dealership and he wasa sales guy for a while and he loved all the customers so much and everybodylike just wanted to work with him that he became the customer service manager,which I think he, I don't think the dealership like had that job before mydad and so he worked for, you know, the next josh probably like 20 years at cardealerships. And I remember like as a teenager I would go in and I would, youknow, hang out with him like on the weekend or a couple summers, I workedthere earning money as a kid and I loved all of the customer loyalty andretention stuff that he was doing. Like I remember him talking about like Ithought it was so cool. He had this little printer in his office where hewould print like the free oil change cards for people and if you bought acar you can get free oil changes for life. Like that was one of the bigmarking things and I was like, wow, that's so cool. But like why do you,why do you do that? Like isn't expensive? And my dad was like, no,it's not. And he explained to me like the lifetime value of a customer andgetting them to come back again and again and they're more likely to buytheir next car there and their cars going to be in better shape becausethey've done a great job of keeping up with everything. And so when you buy itto resell it and so you know, just learning about all these things Iremember also he would um, this is probably like 20 years ago, but therewas a recipe card, like postcard service that he subscribed to and everytime somebody bought a car they would give them like this really nice likerecipe card box that had like some recipe cards and they were likepostcard size and he would say keep this and every month you're going toget a new recipe and they would always be seasonally correct. So it was likesome fun dessert for fourth of july or barbecue for football season. And I waslike, I don't understand what does this have to do with selling cars. Like whyare you doing this? And he said, well, in addition to hearing from their salesperson once a month, because there was like the little scanned note too, youknow, to the buyer from whoever this their sales person was, he was like,when somebody moves, we get it back, it comes to return to us is notundeliverable. So we constantly have all of the addresses after ourcustomers move. And I was like, what a cool thing to do. And so just littlethings like that. And then obviously seeing my dad would like drop anythingto help a customer. Like I remember he would go pick people up in the middleof the night because their car died or they lock themselves out of their caror whatever. So before I really knew what customer experience even was, Ihad this amazing example of, you know what it looked like to really serveyour customer regardless of what industry you're in. And then my unclechef, as I call him, Steph hiking has been a hero of mine for years becauseI've been reading his books for decades, right? Like I think it's probably likein the nineties when he published his first book that I read and all throughcollege, I was like, wow, this guy is such a customer service guru and I loveeverything he's saying about loyalty and retention and I had the opportunityto meet him earlier this year and I kind of fan girl, not kind of, I likesuper fan girls and basically I was..., you're going to be my uncle now.Like I love you, you're amazing. And so I've sort of like made him be friendswith me, but it's working out well. Like I said, he's like accepted theadopted uncle role and it's good. I love it. I love the story and in acouple of things that I just picked up on number one, very practical for thedear listener what you know, you're in bank marketing and cells and service isthe recipe card box because if you are, let's say you're an M. L. O. Yourmortgage, right? Someone buys a home, you give them a recipe card box andthen you mail a recipe to them every month. It's how you continue to buildthat relationship. Because I think in the digital world it's what so manypeople are concerned of is to making the intangible experience of digitalmaking it tangible. And it's through these different touchpoints, thesephysical tangible touch points that we can keep coming back and getting intotheir homes literally all the way down to getting into their kitchen. And it'sjust a friendly reminder that we're here to help guide you along yourjourney. So I like that. Number one and number two you mentioned that your dadloved employees, he loved his employees. And I'm curious to get your take onthis because this has probably been my biggest ah ha moment observation comingout of our really navigating through this covid experience that we've allbeen journeying on together. When I wrote banking on digital growth, Italked about two experiences, it was a formulaic approach to growth D. X. PlusH. X. Equals growth digital experience plus the human experience will lead togrowth. You can't have one without the other, they have to compliment butlooking back at Covid there's another experience that we must consider whichis E. X. The employee experience. And you touched on this with your dad here,I would say how and why must E. X. Be at the root of really the largerpicture here, which is C. X. Yeah. Well, I'll answer the why first. And the whyis because super fandom is a two way street. Like if you want somebody to bea super fan of you, you've got to be a super fan of them, you've got to showthem that you care about them as a person and what we're seeing right nowwith employees with this great resignation as they're calling it.People don't feel that love. They don't feel like their employee cares aboutthem as much as they care about that company. And if you want to deliveramazing customer experience, you've got to have employees who buy into whatyou're doing because any person in your organization has the power to be notonly the first, but maybe the last impression that your brand is going tomake on that prospect or customer. Or maybe a former loyal customer who had aterrible experience. And because of that one experience goes to one of yourcompetitors. So that's really the why... because employees are not going todeliver a better experience to your customers than they're getting fromtheir leadership. And how I'm so glad you ask the how is by having a reallystrong vo or voice of employee program. You've got to listen to your employees.You've got to have a real plan for collecting their feedback, not justonce a year, not just twice a year when you do sentiment studies, but in realtime you've got to allow them to co create the culture of your company.You've got to make sure they're aligned with your mission and your vision andyour values. And these things aren't just like on, you know, posters in theboardroom walls or cheesy zoom backgrounds, like they have to beembodied by your employees. I like that point of co creation because what aprime opportunity to truly engage the internal team who will be a part ofexperience, whether that be in person or digitally. And that's why theopportunity is to rewrite that formulaic approach. Now we lead with EX, E X plus Hx plus dx will lead to growth because a positive employeeexperience will lead to a positive human experience that can be deliveredthrough obviously positive digital experience. But when you think aboutthis idea of what's happening in banking, you have people who have builttheir entire career around the physical world of brick and mortar code has beena forcing function into what the future could look like. That's made people alittle bit scared and timid When you think about everything that you've seenfrom the CX side over the last 12-18 months. What have been the trends thatyou've just noted at a macro level that the dear listener might need to bepaying attention to is then we look forward ahead to the future. You know,I think one trend is business is really sort of waking up to the importance ofthis issue. This isn't something that can be priority number seven, like thishas to be priority number one. And I think the other thing, especially inthe financial world is the reality that the long form operational survey isdead right. If you are asking your customers to do a 20 question survey,like you already lost, right? That's that's not the world we live in anymore.It's not 1997. People don't want to sit down and take 20 minutes to tell youabout an experience. People also don't want to take a short survey and thenhave nothing come out of it. They don't want to feel like it was all fornothing. And I think one of the problems both with C. X and E. X. Isthat companies look for feedback from the employee or the customer to makethe journey of the next employee or the next customer a little bit better. Andwhile that is important, you're sort of assuming that there's this altruisticnature of the employer customer and...

...that they should take this customersurvey just to help you or they should give you their feedback is an employeejust to help you get better. And again, as I said before, super fandom is a twoway street. So it's your responsibility as somebody who's asking for feedbackto have a real plan in place to not just fix something that went wrong withwhoever took that survey and told you, but to do it in very close to real time.So you've got to have a complaint resolution, work clothes, you've got toescalate things in real time to people who have the power to fix them becauseotherwise it's more insulting than if you had never asked at all like to askyour employees or your customers what they thought and then not follow upwith them based on the feedback they give you is more insulting than if youjust had and asked what they thought in the first place. Well, because I meanat that point, you know, one of the biggest words that's been floatingaround in the space is empathy and if you ask for feedback, but then you failto take action on it. It's I think it's why where's that roadblock? Is that aninternal operation? Is that that we were doing this just for the sake ofchecking something off the list. I think this is the opportunity to make CX. And back to this point here, E X. A real part of the growth strategy model.And as you're talking through before, reflecting on on just your dad's storyand his experience around experience. One of things you touched on wasmarketing and cells and service and I think that's sometimes where things geta little bit siloed because historically we viewed them as almostindependent roles, independent areas of functionality. But when you think andyou rise up and look at the C. X level, it's not just marketing, it's not justcells, it's not just service. And you know, we do a lot of digital secretshopping studies for financial brands. And one of the things that we find isthe experience that they have when someone visits your website for thatvery first time and they're considering maybe it's a mortgage or not alone orcredit card or checking account or something, a small business productthat experience that they see really impacts how they feel. So then that'sgoing to get the transition down into the cells experience and then into theservice experience. How do we empower? Really, I think leadership teams,marketing team sells teams, service teams to rise up beyond the silo natureof those three functions and look at the greater picture here. So I lovethis question and I am so glad you asked. And the answer is you have tohave not just a leader at the top, but your entire C suite aligned around theidea that C X. Is important to every department. The metrics that you'regetting from C X and E X have to be shared. They cannot be siloed and youknow, I think that's one of the real challenges that some of these moreestablished brands have when they've... executives that are used to thingsoperating in silo because that's how they've done it for you know years andyears or decades and decades. And the reality is that is the past, that isnot the future. And if you're not willing to change, you will lose, youhave to adapt. Because never once in history has a customer said like, ohthat was the marketing department. Sorry, my bad. All right, I'm glad thatyou're the service department and that's different. Or never once hassomebody said oh I'm sorry that that was the dev team. Okay, my bad. Iforgot. Uh there's silos. So this is a different team. So that's not going toaffect what I think about you anymore. There is no delineation, no differenceto a customer. A brand is a brand is a brand and every employee is a representrepresentative of that brand. And so you have to break down those silosbecause for customers there is no delineation between digital andphysical, between pre sale and post sale. It's all the experience. I liketo say experience is everything and everything is experience. Every singlething is part of that totality of the experience and that's why you can'thave silos because if you do, you're going to lose customers. Technology hastransformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever Now consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now foryou and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today To confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show when Ithink about the banking space and it was one of the reasons that in bankingon digital growth, we define what experience is and I love to get yourtake on this. It's well defined systems and processes that have been number onestrategically thought out number two applied. But most importantly numberthree, continuously optimize resulting in one of two things either a positiveor a negative emotion and it's this idea of optimization in the bankingspace that I feel as a it's a blue ocean for those that can commit. Comingback to your point about E. X. And C. X. And taking that data in real time andmaking these optimizations. I'm curious...

...though what holds financial brands backfrom really leveraging this, what what's that roadblock that they need toovercome that hurdle that they have to cross here. You know, I would say oneis just a lack of customer centric city and to make any decision without havinga customer representative at that table, whether that's a chief customer officeror chief experience officer or somebody who talks to customers on a veryregular basis, that's when you can go wrong because you have a bunch ofpeople making decisions who not only aren't the customer but aren't talkingto the customer on a very regular basis. So it's easy to say like, oh this isn'ta big deal without talking to the people who are actually out thererepresenting your brand, talking to customers all the time. And as oneexample, I, what I moved about, gosh, I guess it's been probably five years agonow from new york to Tennessee. And I had to get a new bank because my bankthat I loved that was new york didn't have any branches in Tennessee at thetime. And so I went and I was like I need my personal bank account and Ineed a business bank account for my L. C. And so I opened an account with thebank that I won't name. But they were, you know half a mile from my house. AndI was like okay they've got locations everywhere. They seem to have a decentreputation online. And I knew somebody I had like a second degree linked inconnection that was a V. P. At the bank. And I was like okay cool. I realizedafter I opened both of my accounts I was trying to deposit a check and I waslike there's something wrong with the app, like I must have the wrong app orsomething, there's no option for mobile deposit. And I called and I was likeI'm trying to deposit this check and I can't and they said oh that's on ourroadmap for a couple of years from now and this was in like 2019 that thishappened. And I was like What do you mean? It's on your road map, it's 2019.You want me to drive to the bank with this check and handed to a person likeit's the 1970s. Like what It's interesting, it's interesting to hearyou go through that story because it's on your road map. But I think that'swhere there's a knowledge gap, a perception gap of what's going on inthe quote unquote real world because how does the experience of other brands?I. E. The experience I have with amazon or with Zappos or with Apple. How doesthat experience then set an expectation for how other digital experiencesshould be almost as a benchmark. We see the same thing with Fintech even. Right,so how do we close that gap of expectation? Because I can tell youparticularly I think about my wife feld expectations lead to frustration. Sowhat can we do to maybe make it hurt a little bit less and make it feel morepositive. Yeah. And you know that's such a great point that you makebecause the expectations that we have...

...are benchmarked against those bigbrands and like it never in a million years would have occurred to me to say,do you have mobile check deposit? Because I thought of course you havemobile check deposit. It's not the eighties, like I never in 1000 yearswould have asked that question. So yes, customers get expectations not justfrom you and not just from your direct competitors but from everyone else inthe world. So it's not just, I'm comparing you to the best bankingexperience I've ever had. It's well, if dominoes can tell me where my pizza isbefore, it's even at my house, why are you telling me that you can't tracksomething? Why are you telling me that this thing tracks a week? It's peopleare, you know, it's it's like the first time you take your kid to a hockey gameand they sit on the glass, they're not going to react the same way when you goto another game and you're in the cheap seats, right? Because they're like,wait, I thought we sat on the glass, like I know glass seats are a thing andthat is the experience that I now want because I know it exists and customersare the same way once they have a taste of that good life, that's what theyexpect from everybody, not just people in that space, that's a fantastic. Andlike once it experienced benchmark has been set, it's very hard for the mindto roll back into what life was like before. And if you go back to whatthings were before, it doesn't, I'm gonna use a you know, coming back to,it doesn't taste as good as it did before. And and and one of the thingsthat I've seen you write about is the Uber experience and your perspectivehere, what is one thing that financial brands can learn from just looking atwhat Uber has done from an experiential perspective, I think personalizationand customization. So the idea that not all 50,000 customers that you're goingto email in this blast want the same thing. So cater to your customers caterto where you know, they're at in their lives and what they might want next.Don't just sort of say as a blanket, you know, this is how many new creditcard people were going to enroll this month. So we're gonna blast everyone.We have to be intentional about the messages that you send, like we all,you know, are on email blasts from retailers who are just like bom bom bombom bom bom bom, right? Like I'm gonna send a million emails and blanket coverand like maybe I'll hit somebody don't do that. Like nobody in the world hasever been excited to see an email that didn't have a content relevant to themin their inbox. It's so easy to get information on your customers. It's soeasy to ask them what they want and then to actually listen and give themthe content that they need. So by doing that, by delivering the digitalexperiences that are actually helpful to your customers and only showing upwhen you have something relevant to them or that you feel is a very stronglikelihood that's going to be relevant to them. That's how you create trust,that's how you have that too. That two way street of super fandom that candevelop because you say, I care about... as a person, not just you as anaccount number and that's that comes back to one of the big lessons that weteach. Just put people at the center of all of your, your thinking, all of yourdoing, we call it human centered growth, very similar like human centered designand and I'm curious when looking out at the future. What are the biggest areasof opportunity that that financial brands can either create or capture youmentioned before, domino's and the pizza tracker. If dominoes can tell youwhere your pizza is in the process. And I know this, we know this from theresearch that we've done through Digital Secret shopping studiesmortgage, for example, right? I apply for a mortgage. Where am I in thatprocess? Because that experience you mentioned moving from new york dentist,getting a mortgage has a lot of like uncertainty. So if dominoes can do this,I'm very hopeful that financial brands can do the same thing because it wouldincrease, just letting people know where they are in the process, veryquick win. But what a From your mind, from your perspective, what are some ofthe greatest opportunities available for financial brands? Either createcapture or further capitalize on as we move forward over the next, let's justsay 12 months. Well, I think what you just said is so key because I see thisa lot with, especially in the mortgage space, but financial brand, they almostdon't want to let the customer know what the whole journey looks likebecause they're afraid people will bail out. Right? So instead of saying herethe 17 steps, it's always oh, we're almost there, we're almost there. Andso what you end up doing is, you know, Yes, maybe somebody feels like they'refar enough along that they're going to stay, but they end up having a terribleexperience because it's so much more work than they had been led to believeor it's so much harder. And so when you keep moving the goalposts for peoplelike when you keep having them think that they are in the red zone and thenyou're like, oh just one more thing. Just one more thing. Just one morething what ends up happening is they have a terrible taste in their mouthand it's a bad experience and that's why you see so much turnover,especially in the mortgage space and with financial institutions becausepeople are like, oh that was awful. I never want to do it again because whatthey think was, oh that person that I worked with must be incompetent orworse. They were being deceptive. They lied to me. They lead me to believethis was going to be easier, quicker, more pain free than it actually was. SoI am a huge believer that if you build in that transparency, if you say here'sexactly what your experience is going to be. Like. Not only do you reduce theuncertainty and therefore the stress on the customer, but anybody that does gowith another provider because they think you're way is too hard. You willmore than make up for an L. T. V. By keeping those customers who are goingto come back again and again because they appreciate the transparency, Theyappreciate you educating them about the process and especially when you'retalking about mortgages, but I think to a lesser extent that first timesomebody gets, you know, an auto loan or any kind of big loan. They don'tknow what they don't know. Like people...

...forget their customers aren't an expertat these things and so you know, skipping the steps, not letting peopleknow exactly what's going to be expected of them and exactly what'sgoing to happen in return leads to a lot of that friction that then resultsin that breakage of people being like, well that was terrible. I'm never goingto use this institution again. And if you think about the LTV, if somebodywho's going to buy a bunch of houses and have a bunch of accounts, you know,that's a huge mistake. So I'm gonna build upon that thought because we'vejust done some recent research for a client around this particularperspective. # one we have found that for financial brands and even mortgagelenders that put the process of what the buying journey looks like. Step one,step two, step three and literally spell it out. Those websites tend toscore higher when doing digital secret shopping studies and if you do acomparative of before and after, there's an increase actually not onlyin lift of positive feelings and emotions, but directly correlated thatconversions, but back to this point on the mortgage side, just some some somepoints for the dear listener, The average borrower purchases 11mortgages in their lifetime, 56% of loan officers do not respond to onlineinquiries just get that for a moment. Like why would you not you have someonein the pipe, call them back and here's why you should call them back 92% ofborrowers by from one of the first to lenders they speak with. So speed iskey and the number three, number three is back to your point about L. T. V.Lenders only retain 18% of their customer base. And I think thequestions are why what what can we do to bridge those gaps? And Britney?There's been such a fantastic conversely a lot of practical things, afinancial brand I want even more practical here at the end somethingfinancial brands. Fin techs can do On two sides of the coin, two sides of theequation, one on the X side of things. What's one thing that they can do tomake progress on? Just optimizing their E. X. Their employee experience as theycontinue forward along the digital journey. And it could be something veryvery small too. Well I would say if you don't have the what I like to callexperience architecture for your company figured out. I mean you canjust email me it's Britney at experience dot com and I'll shoot you acopy of what we use that's very like platform agnostic but it's all aboutcreating what you need to not just attract the right people but then toalign them around what your brand is all about, enable them with everythingthey need to be successful and then empower them to actually act on yourbehalf as an experienced architect. So...

...there's sort of four components to that.Ex parte making sure that you have a video your voice of employee programthat you're on a very regular basis, figuring out what the pulse is becauseyou never want to be the last to know when your best people are thinkingabout going somewhere else. And if you're only talking to them at aperformance review once a year, what's going to happen between March whensomething really bothered them in august where you sit down and ask themabout it, how many jobs have they applied for? How much money have youlost and lost productivity because they no longer feel engaged engagement. Gotto have you've got to have a consistent vol program. I love that idea of the vowe because you hear a lot about V. O. C. Voice of customer but now we can bringthat more internally and here's my prediction. I think E. X. Will continueto grow in strategic importance over the next 3 to 5 years because we'regoing to realize how critical the feelings and the emotions of ourinternal team members are and how those feelings and emotions then getamplified externally to impact positively or negatively the C. X. Andon that point let's talk over there getting really practical, what is onething something small that financial brands can really commit to take tomove forward along optimizing their their C. X. Experiences. I would saylook at the entire customer journey, look at the moments that matter And askyourself are there gaps where there is an opportunity to get real insight intothe way your customers are feeling that can allow you to improve their journeyin the moment? Like not a year from now, not six months from now, not 60 daysfrom now. What are the questions that you can ask along the way in the momentto get real time C. X. To make impactful changes? So you just saidthat 18% of borrowers go back to their lenders, what's going wrong with theother 82%? Do you even know are you even asking that customers? And if soare you looking at the data and making the changes that you need to affectreal change. Look at the entire customer journey. And if you don't knowwhere things are going wrong then you really need a V. O. C. Program. Youreally need to start thinking about the questions to ask at the times to changethose outcomes. And if I was to build upon that thought it's you build thisexperience review into your operational model so that it's not a one timeactivity but it's something that is done continuously. Maybe it's once aquarter maybe Like for example you pick a product line, we're gonna start withmortgage and we're gonna benchmark mortgage, we're gonna test mortgage andthen we're gonna come back and we're gonna reach apply the hypothesis andlike what did we learn from that? But to do so requires the ability to createspace and time to escape the doing of..., to then move into the review, tolearn from the review process, reflection and then to think aboutthose key insights and then apply them to the X to the next iteration. It'ssomething that I see is a major operational opportunity for financialbrands as they continue for to maximize their future digital growth potentialBritney. Great conversation. If someone wants to continue the discussion thatwe started today, which by the way, reach out to Britney for thatexperience architecture that she was talking about, she gave me a sneak peekof it. I'm excited. I even understand it. If I can understand somethingthat's a really good place to be because I'm all about simplifyingcomplexity. But when you simplify the complex, it's actually not a so simplejourney. So well done on that. How can someone connect with you get that thatresource or just tell you hello and continue to learn from you as you,you're sharing so much good stuff around C X and now, even E X. Well,thank you, you can find me at Britney Hodak on pretty much any socialplatform and as I said before, my email address is just Britney at experiencedot com and I don't think the marketing team loves it when I like come up withdrls on the fly for them, but I'm going to do it because I didn't promise thatplaybook. So let's make it experience dot com slash playbook and I'll have myteam make that super awesome between now and when this air so you can go toexperience dot com forward slash playbook and download that experiencearchitecture framework that I was talking to you about there it isexperienced dot com forward slash playbook, grab a copy Brittany. Thankyou so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growthhas been a lot of fun. Yes, this has been so much fun. Thank you for havingme as always. And until next time be well do good and make your bed. Thankyou for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with Jamesrobert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us areview on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe whileyou're there to get even more practical improvement insights visit www dotdigital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best sellingbook banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your teamfrom Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprintframed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well anddo good.

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